funkyderek,
Interesting picture. However, I am wondering if the girl is wearing contact lenses. I have noticed a lot of instances or those kind of eyes with people who are wearing contacts.
The guy looks normal to me.
Rod P
Posts by Rod P
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49Is it just me, or do j-dubs have "crazy eyes"?
by Check_Your_Premises inhave you ever noticed someone who has a 1000 yard (meters for you english types.
well i keep noticing that dub women in particular have this creepy 1000 yard stare.
and then a while after my wife got dunked she and the kids got in one of those picture booths.
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20
Could the Spirit world have helped your exit from the religion?
by free2beme inboy, this might be that can of worms i meant to keep closed!.
i was thinking about something though and wondered what your thoughts might be.
if you believe in angels, the spirit realm, spirit guides or spirits of loved ones that have crossed.
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Rod P
Well, I do believe there is a God of this Universe, as well as spirit beings on different levels or dimensions.
But when I left the JW's (1966) I converted to Mormonism. It was more a sense of being convinced tha the JW theology was illogical- full of holes, inadequacies and inconsistencies. The logic of the Mormons filled in those gaps with better explanations, as far as I was concerned.
It wasn't until a number of years later that I discovered a whole lot of lies and cover-ups in Mormonism that I began to question Mormonism for their inadequacies, inconsistencies, failed prophecies, and questionable theology.
I must also mention that as a young lad having Bible studies with the JW's I did feel something that was a kind of warm, glowing feeling after a Bible study. I asked why I had that feeling, and I was told it was Jehovah's Spirit.
When I was studying with the Mormons, I was told to read the Book of Mormon and pray about it. Again, I felt this warm, glowing feeling come over me. I left it alone for a while, due to moving to another city. I then asked my Mormon friend (by mail) to send me another Book of Mormon, which he did. I opened up the Book and wham!! it hit me like a bolt of lightning, like something came over me that this Book was True! The Mormons have a scripture that describes this as a "burning of the bosum". This praying and getting this feeling of the "burning of the bosum" is what Mormons call being led by the Holy Spirit.
Looking back at what I discovered about Mormonism and especially the Book of Mormon, I remain decidedly unconvinced as to the authenticity and inspiration of that Book. There hundreds of reasons to question the whole basis for claiming this book is the Word of God.
So now I am left with the memories of these two "emotional" or "feeling" experiences, both of which are supposed to be the influence of the "Spirit of God or Jehovah". What then, do I make of this?
Years ago I was listening to a radio talk show driving down the highway. The host was interviewing a guy who used to be a child preacher. He had one of those "popular personalities" who could preach and convert many people, kind of like a Billy Graham. He described how, in his preaching, he could look out at his audience and see how he was affecting them. (Look at some of those televangelists today like Benny Hinn, and look at the audiences and you can actually see their mesmerized states, tears streaming down their faces, arms extended to God, etc. They definitely are in some kind of altered state.)
Anyway, this fellow told of often seeing little old ladies sitting in their chairs in the front rows, watching him preach. And as they got caught up in his preaching, he reported that they were undulating back and forth in their chairs, like they were having orgasms. Having grown up, he left his ministry, and was revealing his skepticism about the Holy Spirit being present and all that. He thought that this was more about the group atmosphere, the dynamics of his speaking and body language (sexy image, like an Elvis), the background choir and orchestra- the entire ambiance, all of which was capable of putting people into altered states.
I am reminded of runners who go on long jogs, and get this "runner's high". I also note that when people, especially women, eat chocolate, they get this sense of well-being that they often say is "better than sex". I personally have found myself in a kind of altered state in the wee hours of many mornings, when I am wrapped up in a kind of "cosmological puzzle", and it all fits together like a beautiful puzzle. I get really excited, being on a "high". I notice that the feelings I get are quite similar to the ones I experienced studying with JW's and Mormons.
So now, I have a theory. I think that just as endorphines are released in the brains of joggers and those who eat chocolates, people whose minds are totally immersed in religious environments and sermons and thoughts, the mental and emotional triggers and responses may, in fact, be the release of these same endorphins. I think this may also be similar biological responses to sexual orgasm, except it may not necessarily be experienced in the genitals. It could be a "total body" or "total mind" or "total emotional" response, or even experience holistically at all levels simultaneously, that is interpreted as being "spiritual" in nature. Then again, if there is a God, perhaps this is all part of "Spirituality" at the physical level. Who is to say for sure. If that is the case, then I would have to say there is something Universal going on, and is not exclusive to any one religious or spiritual group claiming to being the One Right Religion.
In the end, I think I was converted by logic, coupled with emotional responses that may or may not have been "spiritual" in nature. The only way I could be sure this was from the Spirit World would be if I knew I was in the presence of "spiritual beings" that were guiding me. Since I cannot attest to having experienced that personally, I must then revert to my theory as described above, until a better explanation comes along. The last chapter has not yet been written.
Rod P.
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49
Is it just me, or do j-dubs have "crazy eyes"?
by Check_Your_Premises inhave you ever noticed someone who has a 1000 yard (meters for you english types.
well i keep noticing that dub women in particular have this creepy 1000 yard stare.
and then a while after my wife got dunked she and the kids got in one of those picture booths.
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Rod P
Interesting observations, but maybe it has something to do with US as observers.
For example, how many of us ever bought a car, say a Volkswagon. Then there you are driving down the road and it seems like every other car is a Volkswagon. I recall this experience just blew me away (and it wasn't a Volkswagon).
In other words, could it be that what we see has a lot to do with our mind focus or mindset? We see what we want to see. Believing is Seeing!
Since most of us have left the JW's, having discovered this was all a bunch of lies, myths and illusions rather than the "Truth", perhaps we then, as a natural extension of that realization, began to look upon the religion as Weird, and then by extension, began to see those who remained as JW's to be Weird also. At that point, it would not be too difficult to imagine that these people are vacant-minded zombies walking around with hypnotic trances and wide-eyed stares. After all, don't we look back at our own lives and see how we were so brain-washed by this Cult, and think to ourselves how blind and zombie-like we were? Next thing you know, we start seeing the J-Dubs as a bunch of dream-state Zombie-Kooks, as revealed by the windows of their Souls- the eyes. Believing is Seeing!
Rod P.
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49
Is it just me, or do j-dubs have "crazy eyes"?
by Check_Your_Premises inhave you ever noticed someone who has a 1000 yard (meters for you english types.
well i keep noticing that dub women in particular have this creepy 1000 yard stare.
and then a while after my wife got dunked she and the kids got in one of those picture booths.
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Rod P
Well, I was a JW in the 1960's and I don't recall it being like that. I ran around with quite a few JW's as friends, and to me they seemed pretty natural and spontaneous, despite the intolerances encountered in field service.
However, now you guys have me wondering about something. With all the failed dates, the generation change, the increasing apostasies, the chastisements and threats for independent thinking, the stringent requirements placed on behavior, the pedophile cases, the deaths over blood, the monitoring by the elders- Is all this having a cumulative effect. Could all this be having a very chilling effect on individuals, for fear they may be singled out or noticed, and fearing they are in danger by the elders. Are the Witnesses even spying on one another, even being too willing to "tell on so and so" to the elders? Women may be more fearful than the men because of their position of subjection.
This "vacant stare" reminds me of the kind of advice most parents give their children, especially their daughters. We tell them not to make eye contact with strangers on the street, as that may be construed as a come on, and there are weirdos out there who may act impulsively on such a signal. Hence do not look into a stranger's eyes. I see most women on the street who keep there eyes looking down at the sidewalk, which I think is part of this strategy. So could it be, if the women at the Kingodm Hall just looked indifferently, straight ahead, they could not be accused of eyeing someone, or behaving inappropriately- a kind of self-protection mechanism.
I don't know if this is the case by and large, but I have my suspicions, given all the negative publicity I see the JW's have been getting these past few years. Also, here in Canada, our national television network visited the Watchtower Headquarters near Toronto, Ontario over the child abuse problem, and they really and truly looked like they were bunkered down behind some very high iron fences. I thought the JW personnel behind those fences displayed a kind of seige mentality. It was a pitiful sight, as far as I was concerned!
Rod P.
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293
A newbie's impression on this board, pros and cons
by smelly onions incons.
i don't know who is scarier, the jw's or some people on this board.
man, r u guys bitter?
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Rod P
Smelly,
You think it would be a good idea to show our love for our family by staying inside the JW Organization and putting up with their lies.
Do you not realize that that advice is asking us to become hypocrits? How can we be expected to perpetuate our own lie, pretending to be good little JW's and then go out in Field Service knocking on doors, trying to preach to and convert unsuspecting householders to those lies?
I did go back, and I faced that very thing. I soon realized I could not stand myself if I had to do and live like that, day after day, month after month, year after year. It would show how little self-respect I had. And if I'm no good for myself, then I am no good for anybody else. Not my family, not the JW's, nor anyone else. Two lies don't make a right. Just because the WBTS/GB lies to the world and to it's own flock, it is no reason we should be forced to live another lie just to keep the family together. What kind of convoluted logic and hypocrisy at any price are you trying to peddle here, anyway? The fault lies with the Organization.
Meanwhile, "To thine own self be true!"
Rod P.
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57
How Does the Governing Body Extend its Control Over the Many Organizations?
by frankiespeakin inhow does the governing body extend its control over the many organizations that they made back in the year 2000 ?.
i think they have some type of by-laws in these corparations where they are to be in subjection to the wishes of the gb.. also thier may be some stipulations that the controlling members of each seperate corperation must be in good standing and can not function in any capacity if they are disfellowshipped.
thus the gb can alway use thier unlimited power to df to bring members in line or remove them if the gb feel threated.. i would think that the by-laws of these seperate entities are somewhat similar to the by-laws that form the congregation corperations in order for the congregation to be a legal corperation that can own property, where the by-laws state that they must remain in subjection to the gb.
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Rod P
I am more familiar with the way corporations work in Canada. However, there are a lot of similarities to that of the U.S. In Canada, companies are usually incorporated under the laws of a Province. In the US, companies are typically incorporated under the laws of a state. Each province has its own Companies Act, which represent the laws and regulations governing companies for that province. A company from another Province can register to do business in another province (i.e. extra-provincial registrations). Similarly, there would be laws for companies for each state, and under which companies get incorporated.
It is possible in Canada to incorporate a company federally rather than provinicially. I would think there would be something similar in the USA.
In Canada, when a company incorporates, they must get permission to use a certain name that is not being used by another company. Then they submit a package of documents referred to as the Articles and Memorandum of Association. Much of this is considered "boiler plate", since all companies typically have these same clauses, with certain amendments or exceptions being written into the Articles where permitted under law. Included in the package are also a few forms that must be registered with the Province, such as the Notice of Officers and Directors and the Registered and Records Office. These show who are the Principals behind the company, and the address of the company for service of documents. Typically, the registered and records office is at the office of the Attorney, where the minute book of the company is maintained.
The authorized share capital is part of the incorporation of the company, but this does not tell you what are the issued and outstanding shares of the members. To find this out, you have to visit the offices of the Registered & Records office of the company, and ask the attorney to see the minute book. You are allowed to make photocopies of the pages in the minute book, and they charge something like fifty cents a page or more.
Now, when it comes to Shareholder Agreements, and other agreements and obligations the company has entered into, you need to access the minute book to see them. Behind these documents or agreements you will typically find there are minutes of meetings of the Directors approving the contracts and commitments, with resolutions authorizing the Officers of the Company (typically the President) to enter into such contracts. and to take such actions, etc. Then there are typically annual general meetings of the Shareholders who appoint the Directors of the Company for the ensuing year (typically renewing the existing Directors for another term). The Directors have the responsibility for deciding the Policies and Philosophies and Direction of the Company. The Officers are responsible for the day to day management of the Company, in accordance with the instructions of and mandate from the Directors. Often it is the case that the Officers of the Company are also the Directors of the Company, and also the Shareholders of the Company. However, the Shareholders may have a vested interest in other corporations which have a vested interest in this particular company, and so they appoint a trusted individual(s) to sit on the board of this company to ensure it is being run in accordance with the other companies' interests.
Shareholders have the power to remove one or more directors of a company, and to replace them with someone else. Directors have the power to remove officers of the company. There are a number of strict legal procedures under company law that must be adhered to before removing such individuals who have certain rights. This includes properly constituted meetings with due notice, majority vote, etc. The Officers and Directors may also have contracts with the company, which could also invoke arbitration procedures, settlement conditions and amounts, and a host of other things. This can all get quite complex and costly where attorneys become involved with litigation and disputes.
Again, there are many similarities between Canada and the USA, but there are a lot of differences as well. A lot of rules have to be followed in order to start demanding documents and all that kind of thing. There are a number of documents that companies are not required to reveal to the general public.
Rod P.
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43
Fear of God
by Satanus inthe beginning of wisdom?
or, a sign of ignorance?.
first of all, the standard christian and jw definition changes the meaning of fear to respect, like a person respects the power of gravity.
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Rod P
what if god really DOES exist, but god's power is shrinking because us mere mortals are getting smarter, and closing up the gaps?
That is a pretty good question in my books. This brings up what I read back in the 1980's in a book titled "God drives a flying saucer"
Yeah I know, you're all gonna laugh at that one! So did I.
Anyway, suppose there is a God of this Universe, but this Universe is contained within this God. This is a pantheistic concept of deity, where God is in all and thru all. Everything in the Universe is a part of God, just like the cells in our bodies are a part of You or Me.
Now, let us suppose that in this vast Universe that we see (and also including the greater part that we cannot yet see) there are other civilizations or beings or intelligences like us, only they have been around a few million years longer than life on this planet Earth. And so they became far more advanced technologically than us mortals on earth, and mastered the science of space travel. Then they visited this planet, injected their DNA into the lowly Primates, and voila! a million year leap in Evolution. Hence emerged the Homo Sapiens- that's us!
Now these beings from other planets have been visiting us since the start of their experiments thousands of years ago, and similarly continue to monitor our progress even to this day. Hence we get UFO sightings all down thru the centuries in every culture and time period known to man. Traces of this are left behind in the ancient texts and cuneiform writings and Egyptian heiroglyphs, Mayan glyphs, cave drawings, etc. etc. etc.
In other words, the primitive cultures saw these technological masters and worshipped them as gods, when really they are like "brothers" in an intergalactic family of life forms, but everyone from all worlds is all part of the Ultimate God of this Universe, that is in all and thru all. Maybe this is where a lot of these ancient cultures god their ideas about "the gods" as reflected in their records since the invention of writing.
No, I am not preaching some new religion. Just speculating a few idle thoughts along the way. But I am still trying to make some sense of all this UFO stuff, and it ain't all hoaxes, hallucinations, weather balloons and swamp gas.
Rod P.
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9
UBER-STRATEGY - New Convention Tactic
by ezekiel3 inyou may completely familiar with many of the convention tactics presented on this board.
for more information go to these links:.
more district convention apostakits.
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Rod P
Well, I'd still be pretty careful with this tactic.
Firstly, we all know the boys at the top are monitoring 'postate websites like JWD. So they get wise by reading this thread, which then puts them on alert.
So now you go to the assembly and try to sound this alarm as though someone else did this dastardly deed to you, when all the while you are the one who planted it.
If the JW leadership puts the Ushers on high alert, telling them to watch out for this sort of thing, then the next thing you might find yourself in the middle of is an interrogation party. So, unless you can lie and deny with a straight face, and won't buckle under the pressure, just be sure you can stand the heat before you set this up. Be prepared, and don't be surprised, is all that I'm saying. To be forewarned is to be forearmed.
Rod P.
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26
Awake! - Sample Resume for Those Without Work Experience
by truthseeker inthe main article for the july 8 awake is "how to find a job and keep it.
on the whole, it's a good article and there is some good advice.
how this relates to god's kingdom is another matter.
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Rod P
In 1963 I attended an International Assembly at the Rose Bowl Stadium in Pasedena, California.
As I seem to recall, one of the talks during this week long convention had to do with JW's getting a job. The speaker suggested a good place to get a job would be working for a Travel Agency. Reason: Jehovah's Witnesses are forever travelling, going to Assemblies, and so always carry road maps with them. As a result, one of their areas of expertise that we could put on our resume was Map Folding. JW's were experienced at folding maps, while most people just couldn't fold up those damn maps to save their souls.
Wow! I almost ran out and applied for a job as a Travel Agent. Not!!!
Rod P.
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57
How Does the Governing Body Extend its Control Over the Many Organizations?
by frankiespeakin inhow does the governing body extend its control over the many organizations that they made back in the year 2000 ?.
i think they have some type of by-laws in these corparations where they are to be in subjection to the wishes of the gb.. also thier may be some stipulations that the controlling members of each seperate corperation must be in good standing and can not function in any capacity if they are disfellowshipped.
thus the gb can alway use thier unlimited power to df to bring members in line or remove them if the gb feel threated.. i would think that the by-laws of these seperate entities are somewhat similar to the by-laws that form the congregation corperations in order for the congregation to be a legal corperation that can own property, where the by-laws state that they must remain in subjection to the gb.
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Rod P
Elsewhere,
Yes, but if one of them failed, by your "division of labour" concept, if each one is dependent on the other for success, and if one of them fails, then does that not imply that the other ones will fail also, since they are relying on each of the other corporations to succeed? For example, what happens if the company that is responsible for all of the Writing fails? How then, can the Publishing Company carry on. And if the Company that is responsible for all of the Congregations fails, then how can the Publishing and the Writing and the Ministry Corporations carry on?
There has to be some legal mechanism whereby if one corporation fails, then someone can step in, intervene, and wrest control away from the ones that caused the failure. The shares are what ultimately control the corporation, so it is logical that there needs to be some kind of Shareholder Agreement in place that sets out certain terms and conditions that in the event of such and such happening, the remaining shareholders can procure those shares and regain control. They cannot afford to let any corporation fail under any circumstance.
Rod P.